User to user discussion and support for UltraEdit, UEStudio, UltraCompare, and other IDM applications.

Help with setting up and configuring custom user tools in UltraEdit (based on command line input)
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Since a long time I'm confused about "Program type: DOS program". Are there in 2017 under Win 10 really "DOS programs" versus Windows programs?

Or is it meant as "Command line program"?
UltraEdit 21.00 German / Win 7 x 64 Pro
UltraEdit 24 German / Win 10 x 64 Pro
Here is the email I sent on 2015-08-04 with subject DOS should be replaced by Console in menu, dialogs and help.

Mofi wrote: I'm using currently UE v22.10.0.12 on Windows XP x86 and Windows 7 x64.

There is no support anymore for DOS applications on 64-bit Windows. Only 32-bit and 64-bit console applications are supported native on 64-bit Windows.

I suppose that most users of UE/UES use nowadays console applications and not anymore DOS applications. This is the reason for my suggestion to replace most occurrences of "DOS" in menus, dialogs and help by "Console" in conjunction with application or program.

So I think, it would be good to let "DOS" with meaning of "application for MS-DOS" now also disappear from UltraEdit resources and help pages.

Following UE/UES resources contain currently "DOS" which should be modified:

  1. "&DOS Command" in all *.mb1 main menu files.
    "Co&nsole Command" would be better for this menu item.

  2. "&Last DOS Command" in all *.mb1 main menu files.
    "&Last Console Command" would be better for this menu item.

  3. "Dos Command" in title of dialog opened by menu item "DOS Command".
    "Console Command" would be better for the title of this dialog.

  4. "Show DOS bo&x" item in dialog opened by menu item "DOS Command".
    "&Show console window" would be better for this check box item.

    BTW: Static text "Command:" should be modified to "C&ommand:" and "Working directory:" to "Working &directory:" to be able to set input focus to the list item below the static text with Alt+O respectively
    Alt+D if resource items of the dialog are defined in correct tab sequence order, i.e. as displayed in dialog window, which is not the case at the moment.

  5. "DOS &program" on "Options" tab of tool/project tool configuration.
    "Console &program" would be better for this radio option item.

  6. "Command output (DOS commands)" on "Output" tab of tool/project tool configuration. "Console command output" would be better as title for the group.

  7. "Show DOS bo&x" on "Output" tab of tool/project tool configuration.
    "&Show console window" would be better for this check box item.

  8. "AdvancedRunDosCmd" in "Commands" list of "Key Mapping" configuration.
    "AdvancedRunConsoleCmd" would be better for this command.

  9. "AdvancedRunLastDosCmd" in "Commands" list of "Key Mapping" config.
    "AdvancedRunLastConsoleCmd" would be better for this command.

  10. ueres.dll as well as uesres.dll contain still the HTML file for "Getting Started Guide" which I think can't be opened anymore from within UltraEdit. This file and also embedded style.css should be removed from resource if really never displayed. But in case I'm wrong and this HTML file is displayed by UE/UES, the text "Run DOS/Windows programs with a tool" should be modified to "Run Windows/console programs with a tool". Of course the title of the power tip should be also modified in file of the power tip and on power tips index page.
I advise your developers against renaming also internal identifiers of the menu commands. ID_RUNDOSCMD and ID_RUNDOSCMD1 should not be modified.

All other "DOS" should remain because referring to "DOS" line terminators or really meaning old DOS application support.

The following modifications would be necessary in help of UltraEdit:

  1. File "DosCommandCommandadvancedMenu.html" should be renamed to "ConsoleCommandCommandAdvancedMenu.html".

  2. In "ConsoleCommandCommandAdvancedMenu.html" the title needs to be changed from "DOS Command command" to "Console Command command".

  3. The title visible for the readers needs to be changed also from "DOS Command command (Advanced menu)" to "Console Command command (Advanced menu)".

  4. The text "This command allows a DOS command to be run from within" should be modified to "This command allows a console command or an old DOS application to be run from within".

  5. The text "as the "8.3" short filename specification for maximum compatibility with DOS programs." should be kept as is because here really old DOS applications is meant.

  6. The text "As the output from a DOS program is sometimes buffered" should be modified to "As the output from a console program is sometimes buffered".

  7. The explanation "If the Show DOS box checkbox is checked, a DOS window will be shown as the command is being executed, otherwise the DOS window will be hidden." should be changed to "If the Show console window checkbox is checked, a console window will be shown as the command is being executed, otherwise the console window will be hidden.".

  8. The text "Last DOS Command repeats the last command specified with the DOS command dialog without presenting the dialog box." should be changed to "Last Console Command repeats the last command specified with the Console command dialog without presenting the dialog box.".

  9. In file "AdvancedMenu.html" twice "DosCommandCommandadvancedMenu.html" needs to be changed to "ConsoleCommandCommandAdvancedMenu.html".

    And "DOS Command" must be changed to "Console Command" with the description "runs a console command and captures its output" and "Last DOS Command" must be modified to "Last Console Command" with the description "repeats the last console command".

  10. In file "DisplaymodifyTemplatesCommandadvancedMen.html" the reference to "DosCommandCommandadvancedMenu.html" needs to be modified to "ConsoleCommandCommandAdvancedMenu.html".

  11. In file "RunWindowsProgramCommandadvancedMenu.html" the reference to "DosCommandCommandadvancedMenu.html" needs to be modified to "ConsoleCommandCommandAdvancedMenu.html".

    And the last sentence needs to be modified to "To run a console program use the Console Command.".

    The text "as the "8.3" short filename specification for maximum compatibility with DOS programs." should be kept as is.

  12. In file "ToolConfigurationCommandadvancedMenu.html" the text "These commands may be any DOS or Windows commands" should be modified to "These commands may be any console or Windows commands".

    Again the text "as the "8.3" short filename specification for maximum compatibility with DOS programs." should be kept as is.

    In the text "It is important that the selection of DOS program or Windows program" the word "DOS" should be replaced by "Console".

    "Command Output (DOS Commands ONLY) [1]" needs to be changed to "Console command output [1]" and of course a new screen shot of "Options" tab is also necessary, or an image with "DOS program" replaced by "Console program".

    "DOS command output may be optionally captured to a file. The four options for DOS command output are:" should be modified to "Console command output may be optionally captured to a file. The four options for console command output are:".

    A new screen shot of "Output" tab is necessary, or an image with group title and checkbox item "Show DOS box" replaced accordingly.

    The explanation "If the Show DOS box checkbox is checked, a DOS window will be shown as the command is being executed, otherwise the DOS window will be hidden." should be changed to "If the Show console window checkbox is checked, a console window will be shown as the command is being executed, otherwise the console window will be hidden.".

    The last sentence "DOS commands require that CMD.EXE be in the path." should be modified to "Console commands require that CMD.EXE be in the path.".

  13. In file "OemToAnsiCommandfileMenu.html" the text "(usually DOS generated text files)" should be modified to "(usually console or DOS commands generated text files)".

  14. In file "FTP_Browse.htm" the text "of the local file view using a standard DOS filter" should be modified to "of the local file view using a standard Windows file name filter using wildcards".

  15. In "KeyboardCommands.html" twice "DosCommandCommandadvancedMenu.html" needs to be changed to "ConsoleCommandCommandAdvancedMenu.html".

    "DOS Command" should be modified to "Console Command" with updated description "Run console window command".

    "Last DOS Command" should be modified to "Last Console Command" with updated description "Repeat last console window command".

  16. In file "Miscellaneous4.html" once the reference to file "DosCommandCommandadvancedMenu.html" needs to be changed to "ConsoleCommandCommandAdvancedMenu.html".

    "DOS commands" must be changed to "Console commands" and "search/replace, DOS command" to "search/replace, console command".

  17. In "AddingANewCompiler.html" the text "For Windows/DOS applications the value" should be modified to "For console/GUI applications the value".

    The other 2 occurrences of "DOS" on that help page are correct and don't need to be touched.

  18. In "Contents" file "uedit32.hhc" item "DOS Command command" needs to be replaced by "Console Command command" and also the file name "DosCommandCommandadvancedMenu.html" must be modified to "ConsoleCommandCommandAdvancedMenu.html".

  19. In "Index" file "uedit32.hhk" item "DOS Command command" needs to be replaced by "Console Command command" and also the file name "DosCommandCommandadvancedMenu.html" must be modified to "ConsoleCommandCommandAdvancedMenu.html".

    The list item "DOS command" should be removed as misleading a reader to definitely not expected page about "UNIX/MAC to DOS command".

    And list item "DOS Commands ONLY" should be also removed as nobody would search with those keywords for help page of tool configuration.

    The item "Last DOS Command" needs to be replaced by "Last Console Command command" and also the file name must be modified to "ConsoleCommandCommandAdvancedMenu.html".
That's all which of course is a lot. All other occurrences of "DOS" found on help pages or in resources of UE/UES really mean "DOS" and not "console".

See also the Wikipedia article about DOS with the chapter DOS under OS/2 and Windows.

In real it does not matter for UltraEdit if a started tool is a 16-bit DOS, or a 32-bit console or a 64-bit console application. The operating system handles the creation of the environment for the started executable or script depending on its header. UltraEdit just needs to know if the started user tool outputs something to the handles stdout and stderr which can be captured or if the started user tool is a GUI application on which it is not possible to get console output.
Best regards from Austria
Mofi wrote: In real it does not matter for UltraEdit .....
UltraEdit just needs to know if ....

But it matters for the user. I just tried to configure an Exe (command-line tool), made in the last few years. So of course it is not a "DOS-program", but a command-line-program in Windows. It took me a long time to try and error how to configure it .... :evil:

I will try my next mail to support...
UltraEdit 21.00 German / Win 7 x 64 Pro
UltraEdit 24 German / Win 10 x 64 Pro
Peter, I'm not sure if I understood what was your problem on configuring the user tool regarding DOS program versus Windows program.

It looks like you interpreted DOS program as it would be 100% correct as 16-bit Microsoft Disk Operating System application and Windows program as any application for running on Windows independent on architecture (32-bit or 64-bit) and interface type (command line or graphical user interface). So you checked Windows program for the Windows console application instead of DOS program as needed to make all the options on tab Output useful at all and wondered why output capturing was not working on running the user tool and no console window was opened although output option Show DOS box was checked in user tool configuration for that tool. Is that right?

Well, the main problem is that many, really many people, even young people never having worked on a computer with MS-DOS from the 1980s/1990s still use the term DOS as synonym for command line/console although this is absolutely wrong. On Stack Overflow hundreds of posts are weekly edited by community members because new users wrote again DOS but meaning obviously command line/console as it is clear from the question that the code will never run on MS-DOS, only on Windows.

It is still possible to run 16-bit DOS applications from within latest UltraEdit using 32-bit Windows Vista or Windows 7. But I'm quite sure that 99.999999% of all user/project tools configured nowadays for being executed from within UltraEdit/UEStudio and not being a Windows GUI application are 32-bit or 64-bit console applications or scripts (batch files or Perl, JScript, VBScript, ... scripts). That's why I suggested summer 2015 to replace DOS by Console as this is nowadays really correct although many people still use the term DOS instead of command line/console although this means lots of work for IDM Computer Solutions, Inc. and the translation teams.

By the way: Most people also don't know that it makes a difference if a batch file has the file extension BAT or the file extension CMD as explained for example by Stack Overflow article Windows batch files: .bat vs .cmd?
Best regards from Austria
Mofi wrote: ... Is that right?...

Yes. In the meantime I understand the difference, but nevertheless I sent a mail to IDM to consider the issue and to implement this forum-posting.

Have a fine day!

Peter
UltraEdit 21.00 German / Win 7 x 64 Pro
UltraEdit 24 German / Win 10 x 64 Pro
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